I will remember Spring Break 2010 as the week I spent hammering out the rough draft of my upper level writing requirement, over 30 pages worth of text and footnotes. This paper marks the first time in my life that I have composed a work of this length or importance without first writing out my thoughts by hand. I hope my professor likes the result. My eyeballs still feel like they are bouncing around inside my skull from staring at my laptop screen so much this week. It took me three tries over three days before I regained the equilibrium to sit down and type this blog entry.
The students on law review here would have no sympathy for me, I'm sure. They have to write at least two papers, one for the graduation requirement and a different one for the law review. In addition, they are constantly editing the footnotes and text of articles submitted by scholars for publication in our law review. While it is a great honor to be on law review, I do not know if I would be happy having to do that sort of work all the time, even if I did qualify for the job- but more power to them. . .
We had a patch of warm weather earlier this week- finally a taste of spring from the (unusually cold, as the natives tell me) Panhandle winter. The warm air on my short sleeved arms, the sight of flowers in bloom, bees flying around, and the smell of the green plants reminded me of where I was this time two years ago.
Two years ago, spring was also starting in Cullowhee, NC. I was a graduate student at Western Carolina University, trying to decide what to do with my future. By mid-March I had already made up my mind that I was going to law school in the fall, I just did not know where, yet. Having been accepted to three or four schools, I became comfortable with a choice in my home state of North Carolina.
Then the acceptance to Florida State Law came through. Interestingly enough, I did not learn that I had been accepted via a letter in the mail. Rather, I received a cryptic email from the Student Affairs Office at Florida State Law encouraging me to complete a scholarship application for admitted students. I immediately called the Admissions Office and told the nice lady on the phone about the email. She checked the computer system and confirmed that I had indeed been accepted. The official letter was probably already in the mail, she said. I thanked her very much.
The next phone call was to my parents. I remember standing on the breezeway outside Hunter Library, feeling the warm sunlight on my arms as I made the call. They did not answer, so I left a message saying that I had been accepted to Florida State, and that this school just might knock off my first choice in North Carolina. I wanted them to call me back with their opinion.
That evening, I got back in touch with my parents, and I had a nice conversation with them again while I stood on the breezeway outside the library. It was a good moment, talking to my parents about a significant accomplishment, discussing options that were only great ones.
My parents, much like myself, were anti-debt in their views on where I should attend school. The cost of out-of-state tuition at Florida State Law bothered me and was the only reason I would choose not to go there. To my surprise, without much hesitation both my parents told me to go to Florida State- “but only if you are sure you want to be a lawyer,” they said.
At that time, I was not absolutely sure I wanted to be a lawyer, and I spent the next weeks talking to over 50 people about where I should go to law school. Less debt meant that I was not locking myself into a legal career, and the school in North Carolina had offered me a scholarship package where I could graduate with no debt.
Ultimately, of course, I decided to go to Florida State. I do not regret the decision at all. That spring and summer prior to enrolling, I tried to imagine what it would be like. I looked at maps of Tallahassee and saw Jefferson Street, where the law school is located. I looked at pictures of the students and professors on the web site. I did not have time to make a personal trip to the school, and I actually showed up in Tallahassee only the weekend before classes began.
But I’ve been in Tallahassee ever since. I like it here, and with the warm weather this week it occurred to me that I am now a “seasoned” law school student. Two years ago at this time I was imagining what my life would be like in two years, if I would be enjoying law school and if it would change me significantly. The answer to the first question is yes, I am enjoying law school. As for the second question, law school has changed me somewhat, though not in a major way. At this point I feel like law school is giving me a new and practical body of knowledge to use in this world. It has also given me a new lens with which to view the world- though by no means do I feel like I must wear that lens all the time.
Two years ago I was trying to imagine some of the things I would be doing in law school. Specifically, the answer right now is: Taking the Multi-state Professional Responsibility Exam as part of being admitted to the Florida Bar, and working on a 30 page paper to meet a requirement for graduation. I am a seasoned law school student.
Universal Health Care Now,
Nathan Marshburn
Showing posts with label Getting in to Law School. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Getting in to Law School. Show all posts
Saturday, March 13, 2010
Saturday, May 30, 2009
Passing the Bar Revisited
In October of last year, I wrote a blog about passing the bar. In that blog, I emphasized how I would concentrate my electives on subjects that are actually tested on the Florida Bar Exam. I also expressed doubts about the bar prep courses such as BarBri and PMBR as a reliable means to pass the bar.
But as a professor here said to me, FSU College of Law does not want to be a law school that teaches you to pass the bar.
Strange as the above statement might sound, I am learning that law schools which only teach students to pass the state bar exam are typically held in lower esteem by those in the profession of law. Without mentioning specific names or schools, I had the opportunity to speak with a Justice on the Florida Supreme Court this week. The Justice criticized certain schools in Florida as not being of the caliber of law schools like FSU, where we learn about the philosophy behind laws rather than simply learning what the law is.
Still, however, I have to figure out a way to pass the bar exam. Now I'm also beginning to realize that the material covered in a specific law course on a bar exam subject may not be the same material on which I am tested on the bar. In Criminal Law, for example, the professor freely admitted that he did not know anything about Florida criminal law. The course was more about the theory behind criminal law.
For those students who just graduated from Florida State Law, many are still coming to class every day as part of the BarBri course to pass the Florida Bar. The bar exam is in July, and they are in this bar prep course most of the day. I see students in the BarBri class who are on Law Review, the Mock Trial Team, the Moot Court Team. Many of the students in that class are some of the smartest students in the school, and yet they still feel the need to take a bar prep course.
It makes the impression on me that I need to enroll in a bar prep course and do the same thing. Even faculty and administration have recommended the bar prep courses.
Coming into law school, I never would have thought that the learning needed to graduate is not necessarily the same learning you need to pass the bar. Perhaps I should become a sales representative for one of the bar prep companies next year. This would give me a discount on the tuition cost for the bar prep course. I wasn't sold on the bar prep courses myself back in August and September, but I think I am sold now.
Universal Health Care Now,
Nathan Marshburn
But as a professor here said to me, FSU College of Law does not want to be a law school that teaches you to pass the bar.
Strange as the above statement might sound, I am learning that law schools which only teach students to pass the state bar exam are typically held in lower esteem by those in the profession of law. Without mentioning specific names or schools, I had the opportunity to speak with a Justice on the Florida Supreme Court this week. The Justice criticized certain schools in Florida as not being of the caliber of law schools like FSU, where we learn about the philosophy behind laws rather than simply learning what the law is.
Still, however, I have to figure out a way to pass the bar exam. Now I'm also beginning to realize that the material covered in a specific law course on a bar exam subject may not be the same material on which I am tested on the bar. In Criminal Law, for example, the professor freely admitted that he did not know anything about Florida criminal law. The course was more about the theory behind criminal law.
For those students who just graduated from Florida State Law, many are still coming to class every day as part of the BarBri course to pass the Florida Bar. The bar exam is in July, and they are in this bar prep course most of the day. I see students in the BarBri class who are on Law Review, the Mock Trial Team, the Moot Court Team. Many of the students in that class are some of the smartest students in the school, and yet they still feel the need to take a bar prep course.
It makes the impression on me that I need to enroll in a bar prep course and do the same thing. Even faculty and administration have recommended the bar prep courses.
Coming into law school, I never would have thought that the learning needed to graduate is not necessarily the same learning you need to pass the bar. Perhaps I should become a sales representative for one of the bar prep companies next year. This would give me a discount on the tuition cost for the bar prep course. I wasn't sold on the bar prep courses myself back in August and September, but I think I am sold now.
Universal Health Care Now,
Nathan Marshburn
The LSAT Revisited
I've written one blog on the LSAT. In it, I briefly described my preparation for that important test and gave my advice.
However, I am currently working as a mentor in the Summer for Undergraduates Program here at Florida State Law. 61 very bright undergraduate students considering law school are here from all over the country. I must say, after listening to how they are preparing for the LSAT and also listening to an LSAT panel made up of some colleagues here at law school, my first blog on the LSAT probably includes some bad advice.
Coming to law school was a quick decision for me, and I did not have time to prepare for the LSAT by taking a prep course such as Kaplan. I also didn't have much faith in how much it would have improved my score.
But according to the undergraduate students and the panel of students already in law school, those courses really help and can significantly raise your score.
So, I wish to amend my previous advice. If you can afford to do an LSAT prep course- be it through some institution like Kaplan or through a qualified private tutor, then I would recommend it... I wonder how much better I might have done on the LSAT if I had taken such a course. Fortunately, my score was good enough to put me here at Florida State Law and set me up with some great opportunities.
Universal Health Care Now,
Nathan Marshburn
However, I am currently working as a mentor in the Summer for Undergraduates Program here at Florida State Law. 61 very bright undergraduate students considering law school are here from all over the country. I must say, after listening to how they are preparing for the LSAT and also listening to an LSAT panel made up of some colleagues here at law school, my first blog on the LSAT probably includes some bad advice.
Coming to law school was a quick decision for me, and I did not have time to prepare for the LSAT by taking a prep course such as Kaplan. I also didn't have much faith in how much it would have improved my score.
But according to the undergraduate students and the panel of students already in law school, those courses really help and can significantly raise your score.
So, I wish to amend my previous advice. If you can afford to do an LSAT prep course- be it through some institution like Kaplan or through a qualified private tutor, then I would recommend it... I wonder how much better I might have done on the LSAT if I had taken such a course. Fortunately, my score was good enough to put me here at Florida State Law and set me up with some great opportunities.
Universal Health Care Now,
Nathan Marshburn
Thursday, October 30, 2008
Where You Should Go To Law School
This time one year ago, I was very undecided about where I should go to law school (and I was fortunate enough to be accepted at multiple schools).
In the end, I narrowed my choices to Florida State University in Tallahassee, FL and North Carolina Central University in Durham, NC. I opted for FSU, but I think I would have been happy at either place, and either place has advantages and disadvantages.
Now, as I close in on the end of my first semester of law school, I think I can give better advice on where to go and what is right for a person.
Again, assuming you have choices in where to attend, the most important question to ask yourself is, "What kind of law do I want to practice?" By this question, I mean do you want to practice at a large or small firm, open your own practice, or specialize in something more unique like environmental law? One year ago, I really did not know what sort of law I wanted to do, but I leaned toward working for a large firm.
Now that I am at FSU, I know that working at a large firm for a higher salary is my first choice. The type of law I do doesn't especially matter to me (though I would prefer not to have to sue doctors and others in the health care field). The long hours and competitive environment of a large firm will suit me just fine, I believe. I love law school and the work that I am doing.
This is not true for everyone. Honestly, my colleagues who seem to be the most unhappy in law school are the ones with families. One friend of mine told me that she started crying from the frustration of having to spend so much of her Saturday reading law when she wanted to be with her husband instead. As for me, I've got nothing better to do but study on a Saturday.
I guess the point is to know yourself. If you are aiming for a large firm, go to the best school you can get into and borrow the money you need to get there. But if you want to spend more time with your family, perhaps go to a law school that is not so competitive in nature, don't take on so much debt and look for a job (perhaps public interest law) that is not going to dominate so much of your life.
If you want to open your own practice or go into practice with a friend or family member who is already established, then save money and go where you can get a Juris Doctor for the cheapest.
Also, if you definitely know what state you want to practice in after graduation, it is easier to network (i.e., applying for summer associate positions that can turn into regular job offers) if you go to a law school in that state.
So, that's my take after two and a half months of law school. NCCU would have been a good choice for me, but Florida State University gives me the best shot to get hired by a large firm. That is what I want, and I am glad that I am here.
Until Next Time,
Nathan Marshburn
In the end, I narrowed my choices to Florida State University in Tallahassee, FL and North Carolina Central University in Durham, NC. I opted for FSU, but I think I would have been happy at either place, and either place has advantages and disadvantages.
Now, as I close in on the end of my first semester of law school, I think I can give better advice on where to go and what is right for a person.
Again, assuming you have choices in where to attend, the most important question to ask yourself is, "What kind of law do I want to practice?" By this question, I mean do you want to practice at a large or small firm, open your own practice, or specialize in something more unique like environmental law? One year ago, I really did not know what sort of law I wanted to do, but I leaned toward working for a large firm.
Now that I am at FSU, I know that working at a large firm for a higher salary is my first choice. The type of law I do doesn't especially matter to me (though I would prefer not to have to sue doctors and others in the health care field). The long hours and competitive environment of a large firm will suit me just fine, I believe. I love law school and the work that I am doing.
This is not true for everyone. Honestly, my colleagues who seem to be the most unhappy in law school are the ones with families. One friend of mine told me that she started crying from the frustration of having to spend so much of her Saturday reading law when she wanted to be with her husband instead. As for me, I've got nothing better to do but study on a Saturday.
I guess the point is to know yourself. If you are aiming for a large firm, go to the best school you can get into and borrow the money you need to get there. But if you want to spend more time with your family, perhaps go to a law school that is not so competitive in nature, don't take on so much debt and look for a job (perhaps public interest law) that is not going to dominate so much of your life.
If you want to open your own practice or go into practice with a friend or family member who is already established, then save money and go where you can get a Juris Doctor for the cheapest.
Also, if you definitely know what state you want to practice in after graduation, it is easier to network (i.e., applying for summer associate positions that can turn into regular job offers) if you go to a law school in that state.
So, that's my take after two and a half months of law school. NCCU would have been a good choice for me, but Florida State University gives me the best shot to get hired by a large firm. That is what I want, and I am glad that I am here.
Until Next Time,
Nathan Marshburn
Monday, October 13, 2008
Passing the Bar
Florida State College of Law has one of the best Environmental Law programs in the country. Our Tax Law program is also highly ranked, and we have an International Law program that specializes in Caribbean countries. All of these sounded intriguing when I was deciding what law school to attend
Since coming to law school, however, I've learned that my electives are already largely decided.
That's because I want to pass the bar on the first try. I'm going to be spending my electives on courses like Evidence, Florida Constitutional Law, Gratuitous Transfers, Real Estate Finance, Florida Civil Procedure, etc.
These, among several others, are the subjects tested on the Florida Bar. Perhaps I will have a few electives left to take some other courses- but I don't believe it will be enough to complete something like the International Law or Taxation Law programs.
Many students who attend here take the courses in those programs and then depend on a bar prep course not affiliated with the law school for them to pass the bar. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. One professor told me that Evidence is a complicated course and is probably too much to learn in a month and a half bar prep course. Also, bar prep courses are expensive- costing thousands of dollars for tuition alone-- and there is no money back guarantee if you still fail the bar.
That's not a risk I'm too thrilled about taking. So, the goal with my electives will be to take the subjects tested on the bar.
These are things to think about when considering a law school. I love it here at FSU and do not regret coming to Tallahassee in the slightest, but now I understand how some less prestigious schools in my home state of North Carolina could boast of having higher bar passage rates than Duke or the University of North Carolina. These schools focus on the meat and potatoes of the bar exam, with less emphasis on programs like Caribbean international law like you can find at Florida State...
Here is my favorite laugh from the past week:
My contracts professor was discussing what damages, if any, the plaintiff might get from the emotional suffering she experienced as a result of being fired from her job and not being able to work:
"As opposed to the emotional suffering she experienced from having to go to work every day," he said, "that's a totally different kind of emotional suffering."
Until Next Time,
Nathan Marshburn
Since coming to law school, however, I've learned that my electives are already largely decided.
That's because I want to pass the bar on the first try. I'm going to be spending my electives on courses like Evidence, Florida Constitutional Law, Gratuitous Transfers, Real Estate Finance, Florida Civil Procedure, etc.
These, among several others, are the subjects tested on the Florida Bar. Perhaps I will have a few electives left to take some other courses- but I don't believe it will be enough to complete something like the International Law or Taxation Law programs.
Many students who attend here take the courses in those programs and then depend on a bar prep course not affiliated with the law school for them to pass the bar. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. One professor told me that Evidence is a complicated course and is probably too much to learn in a month and a half bar prep course. Also, bar prep courses are expensive- costing thousands of dollars for tuition alone-- and there is no money back guarantee if you still fail the bar.
That's not a risk I'm too thrilled about taking. So, the goal with my electives will be to take the subjects tested on the bar.
These are things to think about when considering a law school. I love it here at FSU and do not regret coming to Tallahassee in the slightest, but now I understand how some less prestigious schools in my home state of North Carolina could boast of having higher bar passage rates than Duke or the University of North Carolina. These schools focus on the meat and potatoes of the bar exam, with less emphasis on programs like Caribbean international law like you can find at Florida State...
Here is my favorite laugh from the past week:
My contracts professor was discussing what damages, if any, the plaintiff might get from the emotional suffering she experienced as a result of being fired from her job and not being able to work:
"As opposed to the emotional suffering she experienced from having to go to work every day," he said, "that's a totally different kind of emotional suffering."
Until Next Time,
Nathan Marshburn
Wednesday, August 6, 2008
The Importance of the LSAT
As I said in my first blog, your LSAT score and GPA are the two most important factors in acceptance to law school. And most likely, a high LSAT score is better than a high GPA.
LSAT stands for Law School Admission Test, and it is offered only four times per year. The lowest one can score on the LSAT is 120. The highest is 180. Of those who take the test, the average score is 150. The average LSAT score for some top rated state supported schools (at least for those I looked at in the southeastern United States) such as the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the University of Georgia, the University of Alabama, the University of Florida and Florida State University is above 160. To be considered for an Ivy League school, you probably need a LSAT score of around 170.
I'll tell you a personal story from my application experience that illustrates the importance of the LSAT:
The University of Arkansas is one law school where I applied. They are unique among many law schools in that they provide you with a formula on their website that allows you to plug in your LSAT score and GPA. If your LSAT and GPA are high enough, then you can tell before you even apply whether or not you will be accepted at the University of Arkansas (provided you don't have other negative marks against you like a criminal record). The university does admit students who score below the cutoff of their formula, but these admittances are few as I found out first hand.
I took the LSAT twice, in December 2007 and February 2008. My December LSAT score combined with my GPA was not enough to be automatically admitted to the University of Arkansas. They sent me a letter of rejection but invited me to write an essay in competition for the handful of slots they would have for people who scored below the formula cutoff. They advised that I would be competing against hundreds of other applicants for these few slots.
My February LSAT score was higher, high enough to be automatically admitted to the University of Arkansas. I called their admissions office and told them my situation. The admissions officer said the school would have to wait for my official LSAT score to arrive, but that I should be admitted. Sure enough, two weeks later I received a letter of admission from the University of Arkansas, along with a scholarship offer that reduced tuition to the in-state level.
My February score was only two points higher than my December score.
Two points on the LSAT was the difference between rejection and admission at the University of Arkansas with a generous scholarship offer. I was very happy to be admitted to Arkansas and made plans to go there until a school in my native state of North Carolina admitted me with a financial package that topped Arkansas's offer.
So what can you do to improve your LSAT score? Unfortunately I don't have groundbreaking advice. The LSAT is a difficult thing for which to study. I suppose a good vocabulary would not hurt as some of the reading can be challenging. But the LSAT tests the way you process information, and that is probably a difficult thing to change.
I can't speak to how well improvement courses or seminars may work as they were too expensive for me to gamble upon. I took two timed practice tests at Western Carolina University, and my score on those were virtually identical to what I scored on the real test.
As I said, I only scored two points higher on my second attempt, but I did try a different strategy. The first time I took the test, I made sure I went to bed early to get rest, though I really didn't sleep well. During the first test I had too much energy and experienced some trouble concentrating. When I left that test, I did not have a good feeling.
Then I remembered a story that Hall of Fame second baseman Joe Morgan told about fellow Hall of Famer Willie Stargell. Stargell played for the Pittsburgh Pirates, and Morgan for the Cincinnati Reds. One of the teams came into town to play the other, and Morgan and Stargell went out together for a night on the town. After a while, Morgan said he had to go home to rest before the game the next day. Stargell teased him for leaving early and stayed out himself partying late into the night. The next day, Stargell hit two home runs as the Pirates beat the Reds. As Stargell rounded the bases after his second home run, he said to Morgan, "Rest is overrated."
With that idea in mind, the night before my February LSAT I went out and had a good time. I found a gathering just off campus and did not get to bed until about 2:30 am. The test was at 8 am that same morning.
I was tired when I got to the test, but it turned out to be a good thing. I was able to relax and focus on the questions, and my sleepiness gave me a sort of careless attitude that eliminated the anxiety I felt during the first test. Unlike my first attempt at the LSAT, this time I completed each section with time to spare, and I left feeling I had done about as well as I could do on the test.
The results bore it out for me. While this may not be a wise strategy for everyone, I can only offer advice that helped me. The LSAT is very important in admittance to law school, but it helps to find a way not to think about that while you are taking the test. I thought about it a lot during my first time taking the test. The second time, I was tired and just focused on the questions and answers in front of me.
Hopefully, this will help some people.
Note: I recently went back to the Arkansas School of Law website, and it has changed. Apparently, the formula is no longer published.
Until Next Time,
Nathan Marshburn
LSAT stands for Law School Admission Test, and it is offered only four times per year. The lowest one can score on the LSAT is 120. The highest is 180. Of those who take the test, the average score is 150. The average LSAT score for some top rated state supported schools (at least for those I looked at in the southeastern United States) such as the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the University of Georgia, the University of Alabama, the University of Florida and Florida State University is above 160. To be considered for an Ivy League school, you probably need a LSAT score of around 170.
I'll tell you a personal story from my application experience that illustrates the importance of the LSAT:
The University of Arkansas is one law school where I applied. They are unique among many law schools in that they provide you with a formula on their website that allows you to plug in your LSAT score and GPA. If your LSAT and GPA are high enough, then you can tell before you even apply whether or not you will be accepted at the University of Arkansas (provided you don't have other negative marks against you like a criminal record). The university does admit students who score below the cutoff of their formula, but these admittances are few as I found out first hand.
I took the LSAT twice, in December 2007 and February 2008. My December LSAT score combined with my GPA was not enough to be automatically admitted to the University of Arkansas. They sent me a letter of rejection but invited me to write an essay in competition for the handful of slots they would have for people who scored below the formula cutoff. They advised that I would be competing against hundreds of other applicants for these few slots.
My February LSAT score was higher, high enough to be automatically admitted to the University of Arkansas. I called their admissions office and told them my situation. The admissions officer said the school would have to wait for my official LSAT score to arrive, but that I should be admitted. Sure enough, two weeks later I received a letter of admission from the University of Arkansas, along with a scholarship offer that reduced tuition to the in-state level.
My February score was only two points higher than my December score.
Two points on the LSAT was the difference between rejection and admission at the University of Arkansas with a generous scholarship offer. I was very happy to be admitted to Arkansas and made plans to go there until a school in my native state of North Carolina admitted me with a financial package that topped Arkansas's offer.
So what can you do to improve your LSAT score? Unfortunately I don't have groundbreaking advice. The LSAT is a difficult thing for which to study. I suppose a good vocabulary would not hurt as some of the reading can be challenging. But the LSAT tests the way you process information, and that is probably a difficult thing to change.
I can't speak to how well improvement courses or seminars may work as they were too expensive for me to gamble upon. I took two timed practice tests at Western Carolina University, and my score on those were virtually identical to what I scored on the real test.
As I said, I only scored two points higher on my second attempt, but I did try a different strategy. The first time I took the test, I made sure I went to bed early to get rest, though I really didn't sleep well. During the first test I had too much energy and experienced some trouble concentrating. When I left that test, I did not have a good feeling.
Then I remembered a story that Hall of Fame second baseman Joe Morgan told about fellow Hall of Famer Willie Stargell. Stargell played for the Pittsburgh Pirates, and Morgan for the Cincinnati Reds. One of the teams came into town to play the other, and Morgan and Stargell went out together for a night on the town. After a while, Morgan said he had to go home to rest before the game the next day. Stargell teased him for leaving early and stayed out himself partying late into the night. The next day, Stargell hit two home runs as the Pirates beat the Reds. As Stargell rounded the bases after his second home run, he said to Morgan, "Rest is overrated."
With that idea in mind, the night before my February LSAT I went out and had a good time. I found a gathering just off campus and did not get to bed until about 2:30 am. The test was at 8 am that same morning.
I was tired when I got to the test, but it turned out to be a good thing. I was able to relax and focus on the questions, and my sleepiness gave me a sort of careless attitude that eliminated the anxiety I felt during the first test. Unlike my first attempt at the LSAT, this time I completed each section with time to spare, and I left feeling I had done about as well as I could do on the test.
The results bore it out for me. While this may not be a wise strategy for everyone, I can only offer advice that helped me. The LSAT is very important in admittance to law school, but it helps to find a way not to think about that while you are taking the test. I thought about it a lot during my first time taking the test. The second time, I was tired and just focused on the questions and answers in front of me.
Hopefully, this will help some people.
Note: I recently went back to the Arkansas School of Law website, and it has changed. Apparently, the formula is no longer published.
Until Next Time,
Nathan Marshburn
Saturday, May 31, 2008
Introduction
To get things started, this is a duplicate of a blog I wrote for WCU's Pre-Law Club in April 2008.
Hello all,
My name is Nathan Marshburn. I am a graduate student at Western Carolina University, and I also received a B.A. in History from WCU. Dr. Todd Collins, faculty advisor to the Pre-Law Club at Western, has been an enormous help to me as I prepare for law school. He also provided some questions for me to think about for this blog, the answers to which I hope will prove useful to my fellow students considering law school. The questions are as follows:
1)What do I know now about the process of getting into law school that I would have liked to have known when getting started?
Well, if I had done some research I would have discovered that having a Master's degree does not mean much when applying to law school. The two most important factors are your LSAT score and your undergraduate GPA. After I learned this information at a LSAC forum in Atlanta, I went ahead and applied to several schools and received multiple acceptance letters. I plan to leave the M.A. program at WCU and go ahead and enroll in law school for the fall 2008.
I certainly do not feel like I wasted a year here, though. When I came back, I was undecided between law school and pursuing a Ph.D. in history. My experiences both inside and outside the classroom in Cullowhee this year have made me a more prepared person for the practice of law. I established some great relationships with professors who wrote vital letters of recommendation to law schools. And I was happy this year, a year that went by faster than any in my life.
Also, I probably would have taken the LSAT a little earlier than I did. I took it twice, in December 2007 and February 2008. I scored higher on the February test, but a couple of schools that rejected me closed the application process before the February test and only used my December score for evaluation. If I had taken the September 2007 and December 2007 tests with the same subsequent results, I might have been admitted to these two schools.
2) What should I have done earlier in my college career that would have helped me get into law school?
I can not stress enough the importance of good grades. Like I said, undergraduate GPA and the LSAT score are the two heavy hitters, and a good performance in both of these areas will get you accepted more places than a great personal statement or letters of recommendation. When I was 19, I goofed off for a couple of semesters. This put a dent in my GPA that as an immature sophomore I did not realize would be so influential. I am happy and fortunate to receive many acceptance letters, but who knows what results might have occurred (say, with merit scholarships) if I had given my all to academics for all four years of college. It is okay and even important to have a good time in college and learn the art of socializing, but never let it interfere with your academic work.
3) Was there one or a few pieces of advice that someone (lawyer, professor, family, etc.) gave me that really helped?
Dr. Collins has given me some great advice on where I should go now that I've been admitted to schools and have some choices. As far as the application process, though, one of my best friends, Heather Loveless (who went to WCU with me as an undergraduate) proofread my five page personal statement for a law school and made some suggestions for changes that I now view as very important in where I got accepted. While no two personal statements I wrote for law schools were the same, I used elements of this five page statement that Heather edited for all of them. After you write a personal statement, get someone you trust, has good common sense, and can read and write good English to proofread it. They will catch things you never would have realized needed to be changed.
4) What was most surprising about the process?
Honestly, not much has surprised me about the process. I did a lot of research in applying to schools, and had a fair idea of where I might be accepted or rejected based on my LSAT and GPA. An unfortunate surprise is the amount of debt law school students graduate with. I believe $90,000 is the average, and it is not uncommon for students to finish with well over six figure debt. Right now, $90,000 in debt means a monthly payment of about $1100 for the next 10 years. Going to law school can be like mortgaging a house, and this has weighed heavily on me in my decision about where to attend school. It is an enormous risk to accrue debt like that for three years with the hope you will get a high paying job when you graduate. A lot of things have to go right- a lot of things I do not necessarily have any control over.
I'd better pick an area of law that I like, because I can't quit once I've signed master promissory notes for that much money! But WCU has given me a great opportunity not available to many people. As Dr. Collins has reminded me, though the process can be stressful, I am very fortunate to have options like this.
Until Next Time,
Nathan Marshburn
Hello all,
My name is Nathan Marshburn. I am a graduate student at Western Carolina University, and I also received a B.A. in History from WCU. Dr. Todd Collins, faculty advisor to the Pre-Law Club at Western, has been an enormous help to me as I prepare for law school. He also provided some questions for me to think about for this blog, the answers to which I hope will prove useful to my fellow students considering law school. The questions are as follows:
1)What do I know now about the process of getting into law school that I would have liked to have known when getting started?
Well, if I had done some research I would have discovered that having a Master's degree does not mean much when applying to law school. The two most important factors are your LSAT score and your undergraduate GPA. After I learned this information at a LSAC forum in Atlanta, I went ahead and applied to several schools and received multiple acceptance letters. I plan to leave the M.A. program at WCU and go ahead and enroll in law school for the fall 2008.
I certainly do not feel like I wasted a year here, though. When I came back, I was undecided between law school and pursuing a Ph.D. in history. My experiences both inside and outside the classroom in Cullowhee this year have made me a more prepared person for the practice of law. I established some great relationships with professors who wrote vital letters of recommendation to law schools. And I was happy this year, a year that went by faster than any in my life.
Also, I probably would have taken the LSAT a little earlier than I did. I took it twice, in December 2007 and February 2008. I scored higher on the February test, but a couple of schools that rejected me closed the application process before the February test and only used my December score for evaluation. If I had taken the September 2007 and December 2007 tests with the same subsequent results, I might have been admitted to these two schools.
2) What should I have done earlier in my college career that would have helped me get into law school?
I can not stress enough the importance of good grades. Like I said, undergraduate GPA and the LSAT score are the two heavy hitters, and a good performance in both of these areas will get you accepted more places than a great personal statement or letters of recommendation. When I was 19, I goofed off for a couple of semesters. This put a dent in my GPA that as an immature sophomore I did not realize would be so influential. I am happy and fortunate to receive many acceptance letters, but who knows what results might have occurred (say, with merit scholarships) if I had given my all to academics for all four years of college. It is okay and even important to have a good time in college and learn the art of socializing, but never let it interfere with your academic work.
3) Was there one or a few pieces of advice that someone (lawyer, professor, family, etc.) gave me that really helped?
Dr. Collins has given me some great advice on where I should go now that I've been admitted to schools and have some choices. As far as the application process, though, one of my best friends, Heather Loveless (who went to WCU with me as an undergraduate) proofread my five page personal statement for a law school and made some suggestions for changes that I now view as very important in where I got accepted. While no two personal statements I wrote for law schools were the same, I used elements of this five page statement that Heather edited for all of them. After you write a personal statement, get someone you trust, has good common sense, and can read and write good English to proofread it. They will catch things you never would have realized needed to be changed.
4) What was most surprising about the process?
Honestly, not much has surprised me about the process. I did a lot of research in applying to schools, and had a fair idea of where I might be accepted or rejected based on my LSAT and GPA. An unfortunate surprise is the amount of debt law school students graduate with. I believe $90,000 is the average, and it is not uncommon for students to finish with well over six figure debt. Right now, $90,000 in debt means a monthly payment of about $1100 for the next 10 years. Going to law school can be like mortgaging a house, and this has weighed heavily on me in my decision about where to attend school. It is an enormous risk to accrue debt like that for three years with the hope you will get a high paying job when you graduate. A lot of things have to go right- a lot of things I do not necessarily have any control over.
I'd better pick an area of law that I like, because I can't quit once I've signed master promissory notes for that much money! But WCU has given me a great opportunity not available to many people. As Dr. Collins has reminded me, though the process can be stressful, I am very fortunate to have options like this.
Until Next Time,
Nathan Marshburn
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